STUDENT E-mails. This is a
site where I have compiled a list of e-mails from students.
Free Speech at Bellarmine (Part Deux)
Some Hate Speech Links
The Courier Journal Article.
And some of the faculty letters in order...
Print out a statement and wear it on your sleeve!
The following are e-mails from students that I am compiling in the order they have been received. The only changes that I have made is to remove any personal comments to me at the end of the letter and to put them in a common font to make it easier to read. I also removed references to student names and inserted "XXXX" in their place. Faculty are not hidden. Both pro- and con- letters are included. I will continue to post letters if students write me.
Thank you very much for your insight. I also support this student's right to say and display what his beliefs, not because I agree with them, but because I would never want to loose my own right to freedom. If we tell this student that he can not wear what he chooses, I am thus giving up my own right to wear what I choose. Who knows where it would lead next. I choose to wear my cross everyday, but if we force this student to remove his belief or leave, I could also loose the right to wear my cross daily. Thank you again for your support. I know much of the student body that I have discussed this with feels the same way as we do on preserving the right of free expression at our university.
Although, I am not one of the infamous few that you speak of, I am offended by these statements that you have made. When someone wears such a symbol, how is anyone to know that any symbol they wear does not have an alternate deeper meaning to the wearer? Who are we to judge people based on WHAT THEY WEAR, WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE, or WHO THEY ARE ASSOCIATED WITH? These, my friend, are not judgements for us to make. The cliché don’t judge a book by its cover applies directly to this scenario.
Bellarmine University has a diversity policy and by having values it stands for, although not obligated to welcome said people, the University is neither obligated to reject them. I believe that steps toward social comfort are not to be taken by those in power. Instead we that regularly are on campus should take it upon ourselves to attempt in reduction of such symbols that instill fear in us.
I have personally met some of the human beings of which you speak and was, at the time, unaware of their so-called “affiliations.” After later being informed of such, my opinion of them has not swayed any. They are no different from any of the other human beings on campus, save for their attire. The first amendment to our great constitution clearly states that as American citizens, we ALL have a right to free speech.
It’s people like you, good sir, who I find are constantly seeking ways to restrict and limit that very freedom that we enjoy daily. I may not agree with what that symbol stands for, but I am not going to walk around campus trying to find everyone who may be adorned with it and ask them to leave because “it makes me feel uncomfortable.” We as a society are allowing those who are offended by free speech, press, etc. to bear down on said freedoms, and frankly, I don’t appreciate it. If I were to come into your office and ask you to take down a painting of the battle of Iwo Jima because I found it offensive, given that it is your office space and our 1st amendment, you have the option to respectfully decline my request.
Free speech means just that. There are certain things that we must “put up with” even though we do not approve of them, in order to enjoy freedoms such as this. I am not condemning you for your open letter as you have the right as an American citizen to write such a letter. I would, however, appreciate it if you would not make broad generalizations about our wonderfully diverse campus without first doing a bit of research in the matter. If such things as people wearing the Neo-Nazi symbol on a jacket bothers you, ask the wearer what their reason is behind wearing it, then address your concern from there as you choose. Please do not limit the inalienable rights we are entitled to just because one out of many doesn’t approve.
God Bless
MY COMMENT: The above letter was an obvious mistake. This student thought I was simply one of the "me too" faculty. We've since cleared this up. I included it because it shows how upset some of the students were with this faculty.
Do you not see the equal perpetration of hatred and division in your own speech? Your divisive, exclusive language is only creating more division...it is tantamount to a swastika. You, the administration, and other students are acting like rabid dogs, attacking a member of your own pack. I am ashamed and embarrassed by this school's response...the statement that "no member of the campus community should be threatened, intimidated, or harassed by another" is being blatantly disregarded by most all parties I have seen involved in this issue. LOVE?????
In Solidarity,
I don't think this whole ordeal matters. Who cares what some kid thinks?
Since all the students feel so adament about voicing their opinion on how this entire situation, I felt I should voice mine as well. I mean, that is the whole argument is that Bellarmine is trying to oppress our right to have freedom of speech?
Actually, I've failed to see where Bellarmine has yet stopped us from voicing our opinion. If they were so adament as you all about preventing us from enjoying the right you so strongly believe in, then why is it that we are having all these e-mails, the protest without punishment? Perhaps, its because the faculty member who, as I've heard at least, didn't even ask him to stop wearing the band, but said that he was intimidating, and making others feel threatened. Now, either way, I would stand behind whoever asked him to remove that band because I'd prefer my school to stand up against signs of hatred and prejudice than a fictious idea that they are standing up to defend a greater cause. I applaud anyone who thoroughly believes that a freedom is being oppressed and is standing up against it, but I strongly believe that you are blinded by a picture of glory and pride in your mind and are refusing to see whats really happening. Let me tell you what I see
I see all my classmates, people I live with, people I have class with, people I see everyday, standing up to defend PREJUDICE, in our already, not so ethnically diverse school. And if I'm so wrong on our school not being diverse...try taking a look around you noticing that lack of diversity for yourself. Protest about that! Or how about handicap accessibility at our school? Sure, there are elevators in Petrik and Anniversary, but look at how far you have to go from them to get to Horrigan hall if you are in a wheelchair. Not to mention I lost count of the number of times Petrik hall's elevator was..."temporarily out of service".
Now, without mentioning names, in a debate last night with another student, I was told, by this person, that the school has no place to step in until it becoems physical. One word...Wow! So, the school, the place we all attend, the place that I live nonetheless, should let this matter become violent before it does anything, instead of avoiding potential and seemingly likely danger? Didn't people criticize Bush when rumors came out that there MAY have been information that could have prevented 9/11? But sure, a lot of people died on that day, and it is one of the greatest tragedies in the United State's history, but think about it like this, if you've ever lost someone close, it hurts a lot worse, losing one person you know, than seeing all those people we don't know perish in an act of pure hatred. We've already lost one person who can never be replaced (R.I.P. Tugger) why should we even take anything close to putting anyone at this school through that pain because someone wants to wear an arm band?
But wait, someone told me he doesn't even share the BELIEFS of the neo-nazi or socialist party that he is "sporting" with his armband. So if I want to go around screaming racist, prejudice, or any other derogitory comment the school shouldn't say that is unacceptable behavior and at least ASK me to stop? But he didn't say anything right? Well, since someone on the other side of this argument used quotes, as will I. "Actions speak louder than words" (oh wait, he hasn't hurt anyone yet, oh geeze well how bout this one) "A picture says a thousand words". It just like me. I wear a cross that I've had for five, almost six years now, I barely ever take it off. When people see me with the cross, especially numerous times, it kind of describes me a little bit, it tells people my beliefs. So when someone is wearing an armband that gives people the impression he is a fan of Hitler's work, who may I add Hitler killed Jewish, Handicapped, Gays, and caused what I feel is THE biggest tragedy in the history of our world, it gives the implication that he is proud of that tragedy, that he stands FOR it.
It is so naive and childish to believe what all you guys are standing up for is merely freedom of speech. Sure, you may be defending that, but by doing so, you are defending prejudice. I can't not emphasize it enough how ignorant the students protesting are being. You may all ridicule me all you like, please, I'll feed on it because I know I'm doing what is right in my heart because I accept what is really going on. I'll accept that we have a teacher who felt threatened and protected other studnets who also felt threatened, prevented some from sharing that feeling and others from getting hurt. Ridicule me for that, I'll take it, but I'll call you a hipocrit because you, would be attacking me for expressing my opinion, which is what you are so adamently defending, that good ol' freedom of speech.
I stand behind asking the student to remove anything he may wear that gives the implication of prejudice, makes anyone feel threatened, or offends people. There are certain lines you shouldn't cross and I believe he stepped right over. Thank you faculty who stood up and took action against what they felt to be wrong, just as these students have.
I am ashamed of the lack of acceptance that some professors on this campus are showing. The numerous e-mails by several professors against one solitary student who has done nothing but express his opinions in a quiet, non-violent, peaceful way. I e-mailed Dr. Rhodes as soon as I received Dr. Golding's e-mail with my opinion. We should begin to practice the acceptance we so forcefully preach and allow this student to wear whatever he wishes, and to believe in whatever he believes in. You may include my name in the e-mail you send out. The professors have not been shy in speaking about who they are while sending out these e-mails and I will not be either. My name is XXXX XXXXX and I believe that this should all stop now and this student should be left alone.
I am writing this email in anger and disbelief at the action, or lack there of, that administration has taken on this symbol of hatred. Yet I write with compassion and respect to those who have been so courageous to take a stand of zero tolerance for hate speech on campus. This issue has consumed me, so much that I have put finals second to writing this email. As of right now, this campus has oppressed many students and I refuse to be silenced. I have found my voice and choose to speak it.
We must first ask ourselves what we value as a community. I value the love and dignity for all races, ethnic groups, genders, sexual orientations, etc. I refuse to be represented by a University that stands for allowing a young man to wear and promote such hatred and oppression that he does. But, this is no longer an issue of this young man. This is an issue of the inaction of administration at the cost of hundreds of student’s freedom and right to a comfortable education. We are forced to ask such questions as why should one boy’s freedom of speech be allowed at the cost of everything that Bellarmine stands for. Why, by administration saying nothing, are we.... no I dare not say we... making it okay?
By inaction on campus, we are dichotomizing our student body. As Karen Rosenblum and Toni Travis state, "Dichotomizing encourages the sense that there are only two categories that everyone fits easily into one or the other and that the categories stand in opposition to each other." I am ashamed that a campus who can welcome someone as compassionate as Tim Wise can also welcome someone that represents the National Socialist party. So what's next? Next year will National Socialist form their own club at Bellarmine and pass out cookies at the tree lighting ceremony? Let's think realistically here. Again I REFUSE to be silenced any longer. This boy has taken away my freedom and my security.
Like Dr. Golding, I find the thought of someone wearing and supporting the nazi symbol more then sickening. When the subject was first brought to my attention I was filled with pure rage. Everything that the nazi symbol stands for is the exact opposite of what this country fought against in WW II. There are those who in the past have tried to say that the murder of 6 million jews never happened. I am sorry, people that I have known personally, who help release some of these people say other wise. Maybe that is part of the problem. It seems that maybe the younger student population has forgotten or never really understood the scale of terror that the nazi party performed on its own citizens. It seems that those speaking out in support of Dr. Golding are a litle older, but age should have nothing to do with it. Our country fought against this sysmbol many years ago. I never thought that we would have to fight against this symbol again especially here at Bellarmine University.
Yes the symbol offends some people but I believe in freedom of speech. My question is would people be offended by someone standing in front of the dorms reading parts of the Bible out loud? This is someone showing their right of freedom of speech. Do Republicans get offended when the see a Democrat and vis versa? Is a democratic society offended by a communist society? We are a country that has been developed around our freedoms as citizens which are given to us in the U.S. Constitution. Does that offend anyone? I think the day that our rights as Americans are taken away no matter what our beliefs are will be the day I get offended!
I am graduating from Bellarmine the month after 5 years on campus. While I do not have a pro or con position I wish to share on these emails, I do have a comment I'd like to make.
I was troubled by the emails from Dr. Brown sent to all students. I do not know this person, but I presume he is a staff member. As a staff member, and no less holding a doctorine in his field, I found it a terrible example to our student body to send out emails that did not contain proper use of punctuation and capitalization.
I know this seems a small issue given the weight of the topic being argued, but as an academic institution the staff members are always teaching and the students are always watching. Given the fact that he addressed the whole student body, rather than a smaller circle of individuals, his remarks and their format are available for everyone to view and comment upon.
Again, thank you for the opportunity to reply and I certainly will understand if you choose not to post my comments, given that they are unrelated to the disagreement at hand.
The freedom that some are trying to take away from this Andrei are more representative of the National Socialist Party than any armband or impressionable 18 year old. It is understandable that the some will take offense to the symbol that is draped around this arm, but only the weak-minded will allow the views of others to wreak havoc on the their own psyche. The symbol is also in very bad taste, especially to the Jewish Community here on campus, but it was the eradication of personal freedom and thought that the brought the National Socialist to power in Germany to begin with. We should drop this before it escalates into a mass burning of books and subsequently, young Andrei. Let the boy have his own misguiding thoughts, with the understanding that he is alienating many here at Bellarmine, and that many will debate him about his ignorant view of society. 10 years from now he will probably look back at this and be as equally embarassed as we all are. If freedom is the soul's right to breathe, then we are suffocating him.
I truly hope that you will post this message, as I feel that I have something important to say:
As a Catholic student, I find myself baffled at the current situation of my University. I am ashamed, to say the least, to be affiliated with a University that fosters such anger and hate. While I am a believer in free speech, I am a staunch believer in morality and the love and protection of the human race. There was no greater tragedy than the Holocaust. I made the assumption that by being admitted to a prestigious school such as Bellarmine, I would feel safe and protected, and I would be in classes with peers who share the same strong moral code that the University prides itself upon. This is obviously not the case. Every Monday and Wednesday, I passed the student wearing a Nazi symbol on his jacket, and shivers ran down my spine. Some of the best professors that I have had at Bellarmine are Jewish. My ancestors are Jewish. I even look Jewish. Why should they/I be the target of hate? Bellarmine is a private university that can choose its population. Profound ignorance such as this does not belong at MY University.
I honestly have no stance on this protest which appears to be a "blind argument," or maybe it is as though I am ingnorant to the fact that this is soo appauling to everyone at Bellarmine. I do feel bad for those that feel intimidated by this individual displaying his beliefs. And I as a morally sound Catholic, do believe that the symbol and the beliefs of the Nazi party are wrong. I may not have a degree in Philosophy or a doctorate of any kind, AND I AM NOT INSULTING ANYONE WHO IS EITHER FOR OR AGAINST THIS ISSUE OR WHO IS A PROFESSOR THAT HAS GIVEN THEIR TESTIMONY ON THIS , but this is how I perceive the debate and would like to give my opinion as others have, based on a student's perspective. Based on my Catholic beliefs and things I have learned in the past is this: My only question is, do you actually know the person, or are you looking to judge him by what you see on the outside, wthout ever trying to get to know the person? Based on my teachings from Catholic grade school and high school and was even told this when I was growing up as a young child, "don't judge a book by its cover". This view may seem elementary when you think about it, but in reality appears to be common sense. I am a Catholic and yes I do believe the Neo-Nazi beliefs are wrong. But what gives us the right to automatically judge and somewhat discriminate to believe they are in full belief of a something we perceive as wrong? Before this student began to display his image of "hate" as everyone put sees it, I came across him one day while I was reading outside and he kindly came up to me and began talking with me. We talked for hours that day, and I saw him as a kind, caring individual, not this person who is full of hate and racism, as everyone I have over-heard says. I have no problem with him at all, but I do find his image offensive to those who represent the many ethnicities and the people who were affected by the means of the Nazi regime, and I do sympathize for them. Honestly, I really do not know the extent of the circumstances, or maybe it is my lack of understanding of this debate, but from what I have asked him about this issue, it seems as though he is not racist and does not want to inflict or wish any harm towards anyone. I guess the only thing I can do is show that I am not in support of the neo-nazis and maybe suggest that everyone step outside their beliefs and/or comfort zone and get to know the person for who they are on the inside.
FOR GOD's sake leave this kid alone! If we as college students are not able to accept the differences of others, even if they are offensive we are the ignorant ones not him! He has the right to express his views and opinions just like anyone else. His words might be hurting people but he is only trying to spread the message he believes in. This is what Baptists, Catholics and Muslims do also so why do we not find that offensive? He has the right to speak his opinion but we also have the right not to hear it!
Personally, I find this whole thing completely and utterly ridiculous! This student has been wearing this symbol for quite some time, and now the school is raising hell about it? If it was honestly that big of a deal, then why didn’t someone say something before? He hasn’t threatened anyone or done anything to hurt them. He is just wearing a symbol and I know if I was him I would now continue to wear it to now just to piss everyone off because they are making a huge deal about something that really isn’t. Seriously, if the school is going to make such a big deal about this and wearing the symbol, then it leads to the point of why aren’t we going after the gothic people or anyone else that doesn’t wear what the society wants to see? Or when there were students playing nerf gun war, why wasn’t anything said about that because that encourages guns and war? I have no problem with what this student wears because it is what he believes and we all have different views and standpoints.
But my main point is that I find it very absurd when I go to open my Bellarmine email and it is all filled with emails from various professors speaking their word. I really don’t think email is an appropriate place for this and many students find it very annoying to have over 10 emails about this before 2pm!! Everyone just needs to take a step back and like was said, sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. Also keep in mind that you cannot judge a book by its cover-there is more to this student than just what he wears. We all have feelings and look at what that does to someone when it seems like everyone is going after him. I mean seriously, we are all adults and professionals here and this needs to be handled in a more professional and mature way. I found these past few weeks things have been handled very immaturely and things are being said without actually thinking before acting. We have been taught through are lives to put ourselves in someone else’s shoes, and I believe that some of the actions and things that are being said are done without fulfilling this.
You are correct. Students are not allowed to use the reply all button to e-mails that have been sent campus wide.
What a lot of people don’t know is that there is a place set up in the course folders for students and teachers to have an open discussion forum.
Directing people to these folders may cut back on the mass amounts of e-mail I’ve received today.
Like you, I don’t agree with the message the symbol represents outside of a socialist view, but I do believe each student has a right to free speech.
It’s not like Andrei is burning crosses on campus or having marches or meetings on campus.
Just like Dr. Brown has a right to teach his class that the white male is evil. (At least that’s the message I got when I took his class.)
I should have spoken up in that class while he was making me feel like I’m the bad guy because of what has happened in the past.
My grandfather employed people of all colors, race, religion, and gender and treated them fairly despite what society at the time thought.
My uncle was the US Senator and fought for the civil rights movement.
Yet, still, the white male is viewed as an “oppressor” unless they kiss everyone’s ass that is not a white male.
I’ve even had classes where I’ve felt I was discriminated against because I was white but the only thing people are going to do when making that claim is roll their eyes and talk about the injustice to everyone else but as soon as a minority is offended or insulted, all the kings horses and all the kings men rush to the scene.
I believe in equality but let’s make it equal. The scale is always tipping somehow. I don’t like the fact that I can be turned down for a job even if I’m more qualified because of a “quota” they have to meet.
It’s finals week so I don’t have time to get into this debate right now. I would, however, like to participate in a discussion after finals are over.
I found it amusing and ironic that everyone that gripes about prejudice were able to tear this guy to shreds before he even got a word out.
That’s what prejudice is correct? Judging someone before you know them?
Whatever happened to Andrei anyways? Did he get kicked out? Is he allowed to continue wearing his uniform?
Andrei is in my history class this semester and has done nothing wrong to anyone. Yes, he wears the outfit that many are offended by but he has not pushed his beliefs or views upon anyone verbally or physically unlike some other groups on campus. He’s not hanging posters all over campus, having guest speakers come in, etc. but he will tell you what it’s about if you ask him.
I asked him while smoking during a break in class and he was more than happy to let me know what it stood for and what he believed in. I let him know I didn’t want to pre judge him because of a possible link to certain groups. I feel that the group he is in, really chose a poor way to express their association but it sure did get peoples attention! Personally, I think that free healthcare to everyone regardless of financial position would be fantastic. That’s one of the views of the Socialist party he is in.
I have not observed him being racist at all. He minds to his own business and will have a friendly conversation with anyone any day.
We also have to respect the fact that he came here from another country where expressing his views by wearing his uniform may be acceptable.
What kind of image are we sending to him about Americans?
I don’t agree with certain things on campus either that the campus tends to support but you don’t see me throwing a fit if some guy wants to wear a dress to class.
That’s his deal and so be it.
After this attack on Andrei, I’m questioning if I will be next since I ride a motorcycle to school and dress in leather during the colder months of the year.
Motorcyclists have been portrayed as racists in the past so will I be the next target since people don’t bother to educate themselves first on the matter?
I even run a motorcycle group here in Louisville that is based online with over 400 members.
Heaven forbid, I’ve also got a couple tattoos but I’m not racist.
Before I even asked Andrei what his deal was with the group he is in, I looked on the internet to see if I could find something about the group and I did.
The blood and Honor group he is in can be found by simply searching for it on google. It was mainly influenced by music so how is his outfit different than someone wearing a Metallica t-shirt or dressing in goth attire? People in this country are so afraid of offending anyone, we’re killing our own right to free speech.
So much to the point that stores have quit putting up Christmas decorations and only putting up general Holiday decorations so they don’t offend anyone.
What the hell is wrong with society!?
People on campus need to look at the big picture before attacking another student.
If a Black Panther group started on campus, it would be fought all day long to give the people in that group the right to express their freedom of speech.
I watched on TV as the recent Million Man March was broadcasted and saw members from the Black Panthers, Crips, Bloods, and the Nation of Islam speaking to the youth, not about equal rights but about what would almost be the equivalent of the KKK. The Muslim religion hates Christians so should we ban them from campus as well? The speeches given at the 2nd Million Man March also included the closed fist symbols that also remind me of a Nazi sign when they would salute Hitler.
Why are gang members being allowed to influence and associate with a movement?
I could go on but I really need to get back to studying for my history final.
Hope to hear back from you,
Everyone should read a summary of the 1968 Supreme Court case, O'Brien v. United States. Apply it to the Bellarmine community, and he obviously should NOT be allowed to wear such displays of hatred. Since when does the right of a person to promote a message of hatred outweigh the right of a community to feel safe?
Note from Dr. Bill: O'Brien was not convicted on a freedom of speech issue (that was upheld). He was convicted for not carrying his draft cart (against the law at the time, just as it's against the law not to carry proof of insurance). See here.
I love how this whole debate has spawned off into some people relating it to the war in Iraq. I love it, the lack of support and wanting to change the focus or some how relate it to something else. The last email I received was a real riot stating "-such as our children being massacred in an illegal war in Iraq" Well your children signed themselves up for the armed forces, instead of making statements like that, 1. learn to support them and 2. Pick a better time when it is of relevant discussion-not bringing it up to piss off more people and start another NASTY debate!
I personally have not spoken to Andrei, however, I did hear him speak at a fourm. At this form, I heard him speak about all of the things that he is not and all of the things he does not believe in. I have researched his society and found that almost everything he says he is against, is everything that his society believes in. He says that he believes in the political views of the party. There are other parties/society's that believe in the same conservative political views, that DO NOT believe in hate or discrimination in other groups. My question, why the nationalists?
I couldn't disagree with you more. It wasn't too long ago that we had a speaker at this institution who has gained prestige fame through his work as a writer and his continuous efforts in expressing the importance of free speech. Salman Rushdie made an interesting point during his lecture when he said (and I’m paraphrasing), you don’t judge your support for free-speech by viewpoints you agree with, anyone can do that; but rather those that you vehemently oppose. Only then will you know if you truly support free speech.
I think Dr. Rhodes hit the nail on the head when he responded, “We believe the best way to defeat abhorrent expressions and concepts such as these is to expose them in the open market place of ideas.” If you show there is nothing to hide, then people will see for themselves, what the face of ignorance looks like. The moment you ban an idea, expression, or demonstration; people will no longer walk, but will run, to find out what is going on.
Your opinion is absolutly correct. Until you go and become a hypocrite to your own argument. Out of nowhere when the Bush administration has nothing to do AT ALL with this issue you decide to take a free shot at him. In my opinion thats rather ironic in how you talk about not judging without proof and you decide to take a shot at Bush without supplying any proof whatsoever. Did you even listen to what you said? You just related the bush admistration to the Holocaust. Your argument was a compelling one on the issue of freedom of speech but if your going to use your freedom of speech at least back up opinions with some facts or information not just shots in the dark.
Dr. Bill Comment: Study this link...
I find XXX XXXX's message very offensive. Anyone who follows that message prescribes to a different worldview and different set of morals than I do. I also think it's great that many within the faculty have individually spoken out against the message of intolerance and bigotry. However, Dr. Brown needs to realize is that we should encourage this course of dialogue. Restricting speech is never the answer. Just look at the passionate feelings this issue has evoked. It has shed light on the ridiculousness of the National Socialist Party. I have faith in the students of this University that when presented with both sides, will choose the one that admonishes hatred and narrow-minded views. Censoring this speech or symbol or young man would simply facilitate underlying frustrations and issues. The forums, emails, and discussions on campus are the answer...not stopping this young man from broadcasting those ideas. Everyone is entitled to disagree and encouraged to voice their opinions...however unpopular they may be.
When they took the fourth amendment, I was silent because I don't deal drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I kept quiet because I know I'm innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I said nothing because I don't own a gun.
Now they've come for the first amendment, and I can't say anything at all.
Although I am but a small fish in a large bowl, it seems necessary for the student’s views to be relayed to the faculty. There are many on this campus that could definitely word this better than I can, however I have spent a lot of time in contemplation of this controversy. It has taken me a while to identify how I actually do feel about the issue.
Firstly, I want to say that Dr. Brown is absolutely correct in his stance against “absolute free speech”. The issue lies in separating detriment from just plain expression. Is the arm-band really harming anyone? I would also borrow your words when you said that the detriment needs to be more than visual disruption. I feel that so far, Andre is simply sharing what he believes in, because to do otherwise, would be accepting beliefs he doesn’t believe in.
So far, the emails I have read basically all say the same things. Protect the rights of the individual up to the point that he begins to harm. If harm is defined by intimidation then someone needs to ask Andre to take his arm-band off. However, I believe the absence of the arm-band will do nothing. The threat (or potential threat) is still walking around campus. If Andre had never even changed the style of his dress thus expressing his political views, there would be no intimidation or threat.
Being a white male, it is difficult to place myself in the shoes of those discriminated. Because of this, I am missing a large piece of the puzzle. Essentially, I don’t feel threatened by the arm-band or Andre so I feel as if my opinion doesn’t really matter anyway. However, as I struggle to find my racial identity I come closer to discovering my true feelings and thought that they might help further the faculties’ understanding of how the student body feels.
Your email made me feel so much better. I was really offended when I read Dr. Golding's emil yesterday. I know this student, he lives in the same dorm as me, and he would never hurt anyone. I too disagree with the message he is conveying and I would like him to take the armband off, but I also disagree with the way it is beng handled. I just wanted to thank you for sending this out. This whole situation has gotten so out of control...
TAKE THE BAND OFF ANDRE!!!! This has gone way to far, thre are other things in this campus that we need to be concerend about. But he does need to take the stupid thing off and respect his fellow students and teachers!
Dr. Tietjen,
I don't believe we have met but I would like to thank you for your commentary on this issue. I was afraid that every e-mail regarding this issue was going to be standing for the forced removal of the symbol. I haven't had the opportunity to see this student in person and I hadn't heard about him until today. From what I understand, he hasn't been handing out leaflets, trying to start any university affiliated clubs or harming anyone directly. Personally, I feel like the first e-mail and most e-mails thereafter were simply fanning a newly lit flame. It's times like these when someones voice, no matter how unpopular, is set aside that we begin to see some serious friction.
I would hope the students of Bellarmine would not turn to violence because of one person.
I could understand if there were protestors and marches being held but that’s not the case.
I spoke to Andrei in class when all this started and he said he hasn’t had a problem until now.
If the Bellarmine students did turn to violence, wouldn’t they just be doing what they’re against in the first place?
Then again, that didn’t stop them when it was time to tear this kid up in a public meeting and now through e-mail.
If something isn’t done soon. Andrei may have grounds for a lawsuit against the school which will effect all of us.
I would honestly hope that students at Bellarmine wouldn’t turn to violence. Personally, I don’t think most of them are capable of it.
They’re more verbal than anything. I doubt the site will diffuse the situation but it will allow a place for people to express their views and opinions.
What will help diffuse the situation however, is for Dr. Brown and other professors that have spoken out against this student to make a public statement saying that there should not be any violent of physical retaliation towards this student or any other students like him. He should be treated like a HUMAN, just like any other student on this campus regardless of their views.
This situation should be handled by organized and civilized debate. If people want to protest they can.
I’m sure if Andrei was ASKED nicely not to wear the arm band because it serves as a distraction to other students, there could probably be some compromise.
The question is, once Andrei is asked not to wear the arm band, should the gay students at Bellarmine also be asked not to wear the gay pride symbols on campus?
What’s next?
We need to look at the consequences of muzzling just one student and the effect it could possibly have on others.
Bellarmine is a private Catholic school. Being a homosexual goes against the church’s beliefs but the school promotes and allows public demonstration of those in support of it. The goth oriented students believe in witchcraft and other things that go against the church’s beliefs but no one has had a problem with that so far. People are allowed to protest the government and the war in Iraq but no one has attacked those for or against it.
Why start now with a kid that is just expressing his beliefs? The school wanted a diverse campus, well now they have one.
I can only imagine what Andrei is going through right now and of all times, during finals week.
The people making a huge public deal of this right now and attacking him should be ashamed of themselves.
He’s still human and the most important issue right now is school and passing the final exams.
This topic should be taken up after finals or during next semester. At least let the guy have a decent Christmas.
Christmas and New Years is supposed to be a time of love, sharing, and forgiveness.
Now that everyone is taking the meaning of Christmas or the holiday season away to be politically correct, everyone can now focus on hating more stuff.
It doesn’t even feel like the season any more.
That’s what I mean by looking at the consequences of these actions before implying them.
i think it is ridiculus to think that we can tell people what they can and cannot wear around campus. whether we agree with a message they are sending or not, if they are not hurting anyone it is not our business. i do not agree with any symbol of hate and don't wear anything like it, but that is not the issue at hand. there are a lot of people around campus that act in ways, and talk in ways that are offensive to me. does that mean that we can just remove them from campus becasue i am offended? well the obvious answer is no. and i think we should look at this situation in the same light, it is free speech and that is all. if you don't agree with it, get over it, i don't agree with alot of things that others do, but i can't control the universe.
I agree with you on this issue. I have recieved so many e-mails concerning this and I belieive that yours has said exactly what I have been feeling. I don't like that he wears this symbol or associates with this group. However, he does have free speech. Thanks for your e-mail.
I do not wish to step on toes, but you have had your say. Stop filling my inbox with this nonsense. Let the campus be in uproar. I have other things to worry about, like finals, and the System Administrator sending me hatefully urgent e-mails about the size of my mailbox being obese.
While I do not agree with thoughts/ideas expressed by this childish emblem, I certainly do not agree with this ludicrous reaction to a patch. Are you going to ban t-shirts that offend me? I am a woman, and I should not have to look at people wearing t-shirts that say things like “Will work for boobies.” So, work on this.
Leave this Andrei boy alone. He is an adult, legally, but he is so young. Maybe in twenty years, he will look back on this time and be mortified. Maybe all you are doing is giving him courage in his convictions, or attention that he may want. Either way, it’s irrelevant. I do not care who he is or where he is from, and I do not have to. I support his right to wear this emblem, though the ideas it represents make me nauseous. Over two centuries ago, a bunch of white elitists sat down and hammered out this beautiful thing we now call the Constitution of the United States of America. The Bill of Rights ensures all of our freedoms.
This coalition you have formed against this boy must terrify him. Have you considered that you threaten his personal safety? I am concerned for him. Let him support whatever he wishes. Until he goes and threatens someone, leave him alone. This should not be an issue, but you are making it one.
Though the ideas the emblem supports may frighten you, there is no reason to take administrative action against Andrei. I do not know him personally, but I will speak on his behalf anyway. I am an American, you are an American, he is an American. Can you not look on this key similarity and see that we are one nation of many people? Stop trying to undo work that was sealed more than 200 years ago.
This hate mail is ubiquitous, inflammatory, and offensive. I beg you to stop it.
Good luck with this drivel,
Although he claims that he does not believe in white supremacy, hatred towards blacks, Jews, others of different sexual orientation, etc. there is no way that he can stand up and believe in the National Socialist party as strongly as he does when they base their Political and Economic ideas off of the position of Aryan supremacy. There is no way that he does not believe in the supremacy of the "Aryan" race when he has made clear to some around campus that have the typical blonde hair and blue eyes that they are the "chosen ones". Chosen for what? I find that to be disturbing. I find the message of the party that he wears his badge for offensive and I am not black, I am not Jewish, I am not gay. One person can start a movement, that has been made clear throughout history. Hell, this whole frenzy was begun by one professor's email. Now hundreds of people are involved. If this kind of message and party that is devoted to hatred and who's underlying beliefs politically or economically whatever the hell he wants to call it are being expressed on a Catholic, Jesuit institution are clearly against what Catholic institutions stand for and represent. He should respect the place of his educational environment and the peers that he shares the community with. There is no way that he can wear the symbol that he does and claim to not be offensive in some way, to someone based on the infinite knowledge that he supposedly has on the National Socialist party. The freedom of speech can only be taken so far. Everyone keeps saying that you need to get to know him, and that is fine, but the way that he has projected himself to the campus thus far, is one of a National Socialist, and if you do your research on the National Socialist party, it is one of hatred and white supremacy.
My view is....why has it taken a whole semester for this to sink in? He's been wearing it since August....and now it's a big deal? But here's another opinon...Yes, if you stare at it and make it the center of attention- it puts meaning to it. If you ignore it and just laugh at him, it doesn't mean anything more than a piece of fabric. I was eating dinner tonight, and he was in the Cafe' also, and the piece on the news came on and he was so excited and happy that it had got out and that he was on the news. That to me means he wins. Bellarmine is uncomfortable.
I honestly don't think it is fair for us to be bashing this guy and his socialist arm band. I have never once seen this guy FORCE his opinion on others and the only time I have ever even heard him discussing it is when he was asked. Freedom of speech is a right we have as American Citizens unless it involves libel or slander. In my opinion this guy’s arm band doesn't involve either. What ever he believes in is his choice as long as he isn't out there taunting Jews, homosexuals, etc. We have white supremacists in the school that may not be wearing a T-shirt that says I love the KKK but they are spreading their beliefs and hatred behind closed doors. In my opinion this is much worse than a guy wearing a silly red, black, and white outfit who isn’t trying to force his beliefs on anyone. I'm getting tired of all these e-mails cluttering up my box over something that seems so ridiculous. I hope the teachers who are supposed to support free will and diversity feel ashamed for basically making a students life a living hell. I always considered bullies to be peers not the teachers. You are going about this situation in a completely absurd way. All the students are getting these e-mails and we are being persuaded to hate this guy and to judge him before we know him, and that is not right or fair.
You call that site facts? Are you kidding? Anyways i guess ill save this argument for later since the bigger issue right now seems to be on the kid with the neo nazi armband. Your point on this issue was the best Iv ever heard. I think as a community we need to learn from him and form our own opinions rather than to reject him. How are we any better then him if we as a community are expressing hate speech at him. These arguments exhausted everyone needs to chill out. He can wear what he wants thats his right and I would fight to the death for that right. Personally I dont like what he stands for but I believe in letting him stand up for it whatever it is. Bottom line he hasnt done anything to hurt anyone he isnt cramming this socialist mantra down our throats hes just showing what he believes. Teachers just leave him alone
Just thought I’d send you some information for that might help people decide whether or not the organization this young man is advertising supports racism.
Blood and Honour is an organization that promotes music. It was formed by and follows the teachings of English-born Ian Stuart who was the singer for notoriously racist Skinhead band named Skrewdriver. Here’s a bit from a review of a concert held in the late Mr. Stuart’s honor:
“The concert kicked off with a crowd favorite Chingford Attack who stormed the stage with their own brand of racist pub anthems whipping the crowd up into a frenzy of white power.”
Here is some information from the Blood and Honour website
(www.bloodandhonour.com) about Mr. Stuart’s former band:
“Ian Stuart's Skrewdriver, The epitome of Racist Rock 'n' Roll, it started in Blackpool during the 1977 Punk Rock Revolution.”
Here are some quotes from interviews with Mr. Stuart from the same website:
“Keep on fighting for what you believe in and never stop fighting for our one dream...WHITE POWER!”
“Blood And Honour has took off so well (sic) because of its idea. There has been no other magazine that promotes the advancement of the White race and that does not tie itself to any political party.”
Here are some of Mr. Stuart’s lyrics:
I stand and watch my country, going down the drain ?We are all at fault now, we are all to blame ?We're letting them take over, we just let 'em come ?Once we had an Empire, and now we've got a slum
(chorus) ?White Power! For England ?White Power! Today ?White Power! For Britain
Before it gets too late
Are we gonna sit and let them come? ?Have they got the White man on the run? ?Multi-racial society is a mess ?We ain't gonna take much more of this ?What do we need? White Power!
Mr. Stuart was also in a band named the Klansmen.
The phrase “Blood and Honour” is an English translation of the inscription on the dagger given to members of the Hitler Youth.
Andrei says his armband represents a musical organization. Thie lyrics above are representative of the kind of music they make. Does this make his armband some sort of ”hate speech”? I don’t know. I’m not a lawyer. I do know that when Andrei says it only represents music, he’s not really telling anyone the whole story. He says he supports National Socialism, as do the followers of Ian Stuart. If you don’t believe in the racist part of National Socialism, why on Earth would you listen to that kind of music? His armband is not of the National Socialist Party; it is an armband of an organization of racist Skinheads who use music to promote their message. This is an armband of an openly racist organization.
First off, I want to thank you for helping to remove these emails from my inbox. I have to agree with others who have voiced the opinion that the email should not have been sent, but I am grateful for the opportunity to finally say something about this issue, and not feel judged as an uneducated or naive freshman.
Symbols mean different things to different people. Yes, the swastika is seen as the symbol of the Nazi party, and embodies everything that the party stood for, which is hate and Aryan supremacy. But did anyone bother to look at where Hitler obtained the symbol from originally? No. Hitler was no genius; he did not create a symbol that still haunts us today. He used the Buddhist swastika and perverted it into a hate symbol. The Buddhist swastika is a good-luck symbol from India, abundance, prosperity and life in China and Japan, and Thor's hammer in Scandinavia (http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/general_symbols_buddhism.html#6). I am not saying his neo-Nazi swastika means good luck and health; but this shows symbols change and continue to do so. Symbols mean different things to different people, and this student has already said what it means to him. I think if you are truly offended by his wearing of it then discuss it with him; he's already opened himself to dialogue (and much unneeded harassment, I think). Stop complaining to the administration, asking them to make things better for you. You cannot solve a problem by getting rid of what makes us feel uncomfortable or threatened. Educating ourselves is the only way we can resolve this, and I thank Dr. Tietjen for creating this site so we can do just that.
Dr. Tietjen, thank you very much for doing this.
The only comment that I wanted to make was simply this: I'll admit it. I, too, feel very unsafe and uneasy while walking around on this campus lately. However, that has nothing to do with Andrei or his armband at all. I feel unsafe because of the incredibly volital situation that is being cultivated by students and professors holding a public debate against Andrei and his armband. It makes me feel uncomfortable and feel threatened walking around campus knowing that such unrest is going on, and such hatred towards another person who has done nothing to deserve it (except express his beliefs). I also know that I am defnitely not the only student who feels this way.
I find it very interesting that people are reacting towards Andrei and treating him exactly the way that they think he is treating others. People say that Andrei's symbol stands for hate and for exclusion of certain groups, and yet isn't that what we are doing to him? Excluding him for what he believes in? People say that if the University stands for diversity, how can we allow this to occur. Well, isn't tolerating differnt views of others supporting diversity? If Andrei wasn't allowed to express his beliefs, would that not mean that we are not acting in support of diversity? Now that, in my opinion, is hypocritical.
I posted this on the public folders perhaps it is appropriate, perhaps not, i'll leave it to your discretion...........
Let me begin by saying that i am wholeheartedly against anything that supports hate of any kind. I am a pacivist to the core, I believe that all people, no matter their race, sexual orientation, political affiliation, or religious denomination, etc, are exactly that--people.
People are proned to making mistakes; to being anything but perfect examples of humanity. It is in our very nature to be against that which is not like ourselves, because we feel comfortable with familiarity; but what excels us above our plight as mere mammals is our ability to make choices.
We, (myself included in this imperfect race,) may be proned to discriminate but we can fight it, (or at least some of us strive to.) Prejudice exists in this imperfect world, and it lives in all of us, everyone of us has our own bit of discrimination towards some person or groups of people for whatever reasons, but our only chance against HATE is not to demonstrate our own prejudice or descrimination, but to embrace the differences of this world as an opportunity to learn more and to better oneself, and hopefully, in turn society....
I, as a petite, white, lesbian, fight the urge to cringe as a homeless man passes me on a poorly lit street hoping to dear God that he will not live up to his stereotype, I fight the urge to instantly see all catholics as homophobics because of their doctrines, I fight the urge to raise my voice to a supposed Neo-Nazi who may or may not support an organization that feels I as a woman am inferrior and as a lesbian should be exterminated.
This does not mean that HATE in any form of expression, symbollically, physically, emotionally, etc, should be ignored or encouraged; I mean simply this, those who express hate should not be hated, but pitied for their ignorance, and bad CHOICE to ignore the beautiful differences in this world that encompass us all; and instead those who are hated by this person/group of people the most should show him/them love and kindness, and by doing so perhaps the ignorant will see the wrong in their ways;
I suppose i am calling for LOVE....dont fight fire with fire, the opposite of hate is love, lets show these poor fools who refuse to make the choice to embrace difference what they are missing, lets not instigate them to withdraw further from society, by stripping them of their symbolism, but show them your own.
If you are angered or feel threatened (as i am) by the arm band that has stirred up such a rukus that an individual wears, perhaps the best way to stomp out his display of hate is not to strip him of it, but to wear your own symbol of love. He stands out on campus because he wears a black armband that symbolizes his beliefs, so i say, instead of taking a stand against HATE, take a stand for LOVE, if you really believe in what some of you have said about equality for all, love for all--then show it, wear your own armband, actually or metaphorically, make it known what you believe in, because if they can't stop him through forums than they can't stop you either.
Take a stand for your beliefs, whatever they may be, and hold firm to them, as they are the results of your choices, and thus are all that cushion the barrier between us and the beasts we think we are superior to.
I think it's his right to express himself however he so chooses. It's not physically harming to see that arm band. I don't think he should be made to remove it. I'm with you :)
Good professors are hard to come by and I’ve been lucky for the most part.
It’s a shame that it seems our program has changed since the report came out saying Bellarmine was ranked among the top 25 schools that didn’t require opening a text book. Since that report, I’ve noticed the professors teaching less and making us read more.
What people think is that because the students don’t have to open the books, they assume it is too easy.
However, the real case is that we have talented professors that give knowledge through discussion and lecture which provides us with all the information we need. The text books are merely a reference.
Since that report, professors I’ve had in the past that put the notes on PowerPoint have quit doing so and have been giving more standard tests that print out with the book’s CD. It has also made it more difficult since I can’t hear out of one ear. Maybe that can be addressed next semester. Who knows.
Thanks for taking the time to compose the list of responses you got and putting them on the internet for everyone to read.
While searching for a copy of the symbol of the group Andrei is in, I found their USA website. One which I haven’t been able to find before now.
Until now, I’ve only been able to find ones over seas.
Here is the link: http://www.bloodandhonour-usa.com/index1.html
After reviewing the website, I read more about white supremacy than I read about politics.
Feel free to review it at your own convenience. Upon viewing the site, I saw pictures of skin heads, burning crosses, and burning swastikas.
There was also a story about one of the members of the group, only 18, being stabbed to death in another state. They did not say why but I’m assuming because of that persons display of his beliefs.
I still disagree with the way the campus has attacked Andrei because of this but I am no longer clear on his purpose.
He stated that he only agrees with the political views of the group and not the hatred but from the website, hatred is mainly what I see.
Maybe not direct hatred but definitely the support of white supremacy. I suppose another requirement for the group is to shave your head, which Andrei has done.
I also fear that since the school is attacking this student, once word gets out in the media, we’re sure to have an issue on campus.
From the website, I saw that the group recently had a meeting in Ohio and now that the spotlight is on us, I’m sure the next meeting will be in Louisville more than likely.
Not to say Andrei will call the troops in but once the media blows it out of proportion, which they probably will, I’m sure other chapters of the group will respond.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see some type of symbol burning on campus next semester if this attack on Andrei continues.
I’m not sure if you saw Andrei’s response to this whole situation or not but here it is in case you haven’t seen it.
From his response, I feel no threat from him at all, however with the group he associates with, ‘blood and honor’, I can see potential problems if he is oppressed.
Maybe he doesn’t understand exactly what they are about. Maybe that’s how they drag new recruits into it, who knows?
Im sure i am one of million of students that have been emailing you, but i have something that i want to share. I sit in the library, which is very empty, reading the responses from numerous faculty members, before i start studying for finals. I hear a set chains jingle down the hall and i look down from the row of computers and see the one person who has start this new revolution. The irony about this that im not sure what to think and when i say him all i could do was stare. He had to know i was staring bc it was obvious. I don't know what exacylt he believes in and i have heard rumors of him wearing nazi symbols and follow the socialist party.....etc.....well all i want hi to know is that he wasn't there and doesn't know how those poeple suffered. The reason that i am offended is because i am 100% German and not even an american citizen, i am a legal resident of the US and i am a decendent of NAZI's. MY great grandpa was a nazi.........NOT BY CHOICE, they made him become part of the government or he could end up like the jews....stripped of dignity, choice, and life. It hits close to home because this is my past and i don't go around parading that my ancestors did something that i should be pride of. I am concerned because a lot of young people stand for something that they don't know about or they like the thought of being different and standing out from others. The boy is crying for attention and we have now fitlered into it. I just want him to realize what he is really standing for. My mom's best friend lived in East Berlin at the time Stalin ruled that portion. She has shared with me the acts that he bestowed upon Germans and the torture that they had to suffer under communist rule. They were also stripped of choice, dignity, and life.....but she is lucky...she survived!!